Michelle Pirone Lambros – Princeton Councilmember

Podcast Transcript

Mark Freda: Michelle, thanks for being here today.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Mark, thanks for asking me to talk about this very important subject today. Appreciate it.

Mark Freda: All right. So, let’s start with, I’m sure many listeners already are aware of Community Park South, but for those that are not, what role does this park play in the life of Princeton, and how do you see that role changing with expected changes that we’re going to be talking about?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Well, you know, Community Park South has always been more than just a recreational facility. It’s really the heart of the community. It’s a place where generations of children and adults have come together to play, socialize, build lasting memories, and it serves really as our Central Park, you could say. It’s a gathering place that transcends both social boundaries. I think it fosters a sense of belonging for all residents regardless of their background or their privilege. You know, it’s very walkable and in the center of town.

Mark Freda: Yeah. So, how do you how do you envision the new Community Park South becoming a gathering place for residents?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: So, the park’s location bordering the Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood, you know, holds profound historical significance. I think it fills a particular niche for our residents in a very densely populated neighborhood. For instance, particularly for those in affordable housing or multi-family housing, many of whom don’t have adequate recreational facilities. So, just within blocks of the park, are hundreds of affordable units of housing, workforce housing that’s being built as part of our third-round obligation for affordable housing. And just a few blocks down the street, around the shopping center, there’s more housing that’s, you know, also doesn’t have a backyard, you know, in multi-family housing. So, this really comes as a as a great opportunity for for gathering.

Mark Freda: Yeah, good point. So, when you look at the recommended design, how well do you think it reflects the different interests and priorities that we’ve heard from the community throughout the process so far?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: It’s not easy to be everything to everyone, but I do think that there are a lot of recreational upgrades, facilities both for youth sports, teen sports, as well as adult recreation. So, I do think we’ve addressed recreational areas as well as great, like community gathering spots and things for people to do, like the dog park. You know, bring your dog, but meet up with some friends there too.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah. All right, so Community Park South, I think most people know, hasn’t really been touched since the 1960s. So, why do you think now is the right time or the right moment to take on what will be a big transformation, and what could Princeton residents expect from this from this new design?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: So, you know, in as much as, you know, I mentioned before that it’s a beacon of historical significance and cultural relevance, it serves as a vital hub for the town, and particularly to the Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood. I’d say, if not now, when? I think that, you know, as I’ve mentioned, there’s a lot of new housing, new residents, new neighbors coming in and, you know, with the multi-family as well, there is really a real need for this and to help, you know, with the schools for practice and just for youth sports in general. So, there’s just there’s a myriad of reasons why now, why not now?

Mark Freda: Sure, sure. So, what’s the current timeline for there’s going to be more governing body and public discussion on the, I guess, the updated plans, as the plans get more finalized, there’ll be budget approval, and then actual construction and completion? So, it’s not like this is all happening tomorrow, but—

Michelle Pirone Lambros: No, unfortunately, these things take time, but we want to be intentional in the timing. So, you know, the first phase was to reach out to the public. We had a great public discussion and open public meetings where people came in, and they saw different design options, they gave us their feedback on what their priorities were, and the consultant, the first consulting group, took that together and came up with a concept plan that was approved at a public meeting with Council.

Now, the second phase is where we are today, and we’re in engineering drawings. So, we’re in a second phase of engineering, which entails another consultant, so there’s always consultants. And there’s a steering committee made up of pretty much the same people that were on the last steering committee giving feedback, and they’ve already refined the concept plan as was brought forth to the Council a few months ago.

So, we’re hoping by the end of the year we’ll have those engineer drawings in front of us again at Council, and we’ve asked them to do this in three phases. We know that it’s a big heavy lift financially, so we’ve asked them to do it in three phases, so we could do it probably over a 10-year period. And then we’re looking to set up what we hope will be like a Friends of Community Park South, a non-profit organization, so that anyone who wants to participate in the fundraising effort and in building more support in town, but also financial support, so that it’s not all taxpayer burden.

Mark Freda: Yeah, which is a great plan. How will the town manage disruptions to park users while the work is underway?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Well, I think the good thing is that doing it in phases will allow for for more minimized disruptions. I don’t have all the answers yet, I think once we see the designs from the from the engineering department and the engineer consultant, then we’ll get a better idea how the phasing is, and that’s one of the things we’ve asked them to consider, too, is how will that work in terms of interaction with the with the community.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah. Important details, but yeah, takes a little while to figure all that out. I think you mentioned this, but let’s spend a little more time on it that you said it’ll be done in phases. So, there are plans to phase the construction. So, I imagine the hope would be parts of the park would stay open while the construction is done over how many years we end up doing it.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Yeah, and probably we’re guestimating at this point 10 years, from a financial standpoint, from a cash-flow standpoint, you know, from a capital improvement, because the capital improvement would be substantial, and also from a fundraising standpoint, we want some time to be able to fundraise and and go for grants. This does qualify as open space funding, so we can both tap our open space funds that are municipal funds as well as we’re talking with the county about using their open space grant program.

Mark Freda: Yeah. Okay. So, how do you how do you envision this this transformation affecting, you know, everyday users of the park? People use the park for a lot of different things.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: There are a lot of additional amenities that are planned. For instance, even just having restroom facilities will allow people to stay longer. Yes. Yes. Being able to upgrade and fix the tennis courts because they’re at the end of their useful life. We’re adding pickleball courts, and I know there’s a lot of enthusiasm for that in town.

So, you know, also having fields that are really usable. We have a lot of space at Community Park South right now, but a lot of it has is pitched and has potholes, and really the kids or adults, too, cannot play on it. So, I envision that a lot of people will be able to utilize this, so and that’s a good thing, it’ll be really wonderful to see lots of people, you know, gathering.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah, it’s a great space. So, you’ve been involved in the redesign process right from the very beginning. Could you walk us through how it evolved from public feedback to the final recommended concept, and, you know, just what you see share like how that process shaped the version of what we’re seeing today?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Yeah, I touched on this before, but basically, the first consultant, Suburban Consulting, that came on board was really tasked with having a community input process that was robust. So, we had a survey out for people that maybe couldn’t come into the open forums. We had several open forums here that people could come into, like a charrette, there were different bill- different boards with different design options, and before we even got to that process, we had a steering committee. The steering committee consisted of representatives from our Rec Department, Rec Commission, Council, also the schools, we had several people from the schools, from the Environmental Commission, and my mind’s a blank for who else was there, but they were all important.

So, we factored in a variety of concerns. Environmental concerns was really important to us as well. So, we factored all this in, and the consultants came up with some really nice concepts that tried to incorporate everything, oh, like the Dog Park Alliance, and, you know, and they went out, the consultants, and not only had these open forums, but they had stakeholder meetings with the Little League, with soccer, with lacrosse, with Dog Park Alliance, with the pickleball, and of course with tennis. So, we had a lot of input from varying groups that, you know, everybody wants what they want, and then tried to balance it so that it was also, you know, going to be environmentally sensitive. This was something really important that we added a lot of infrastructure, green infrastructure, more plantings, rain gardens, and of course, the preservation of the existing mature trees was paramount to us.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah, pretty good process. Of all the new amenities and upgrades planned, whether it’s pickleball courts, the dog park, or renovated walking paths, what which are you most excited about and why?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: I mean, I’m excited about all the recreational facilities, and, you know, even like the volleyball court on sand and a new kiddie park, you know, it’s really important that there’s a lot for people to do. I’m probably the most excited, if I had to pick something, about like the community gathering spaces, like community pavilions and some picnic tables and the restrooms. I want it to be somewhere where people come and say, “Let’s spend the day,” not just run in and out to do one thing, but, you know, having something where the whole family can can really have a day, and it’ll be nice to be able to have gathering spots like that because we don’t have that robust of a of a park in town yet.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah, it’s a great space. So, you know, Michelle, I imagine most people that live in Princeton have a pretty good idea what rain gardens are, but just in case, do you want to just explain maybe two things: what what what is a rain garden and what’s it trying to do, and and the other thing which I think is really important is preserving the mature trees? Maybe just comment on the rain gardens and why it’s so important to preserve those trees?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: So, it’s really rain gardens I think are becoming more known now as and and if you do it in construction, and you increase any impervious coverage, your residents you are going to need to offset that with a rain garden. And a rain garden is stormwater management in in a natural setting, right? So, it’s planting, and I can get into specifics, we’d have to get Taylor, our arborist, here, but it’s planting specific plants and trees that will absorb the the runoff so that, you know, it’s it’s not we get, you know, we have a lot of flooding issues in a town like Princeton that is so historic, but there’s also underground some some a lot of springs and and infrastructure. So, on the surface, the rain gardens help to absorb that runoff.

Now, some of my colleagues would have given a much more a much better answer, much more technical, but that’s the best I can do.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah, no, I think, you know, keeping it keeping it short and sweet is a is better. And then I think, you know, we should just comment that preserving the mature trees especially, right, because all the good that the trees do for air quality, absorbing rainwater, etc., is pretty pretty important.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: It is it’s essential, and, you know, um, when people do construction, we have certain regulations. So, if you have to take a a live tree, a mature tree down, you have to plant a certain number of trees to replace it depending on the size that it is, but there’s nothing really that replaces it for a very long time in terms of its environmental impact. So, there was really no reason, I’m it’s pretty bare, really, the the park right now today, but there are some mature trees, so there was no reason to have to take down any mature trees unless they were at their end of life or or they were, sometimes they’re invasive species, we’ve had that, you know, or maybe they’re already diseased. But other than that, if they’re healthy live trees, we worked around them.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah, which is great. And and as a community, us at the municipality, we should be setting the example, so it’s good that we’re doing that. All right, so having said that, my next question kind of ties into that: so what lessons from this project might influence future park or open space projects in Princeton?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: I think that the process that we’re going through should be um really a model for how we go about any large-scale project, whether it’s a park project or any kind of, you know, planning project. It’s been a a really good process. We need to incorporate consultants, it may seem like it’s, you know, money up front, but it’s money well spent, in my view, because they are able to help us outreach to the community, have those stakeholder meetings, gather the data, and then bring their expertise to the table to help us formulate a plan and strategy.

Mark Freda: Yeah. And, you know, just as we’re talking, my mind kind of goes back, I know growing up, spent a lot of time at CP South watching softball games especially. And I think it’s interesting that the new design still allows for a couple ball fields, but it also shows the changing trend as to how popular soccer has become since, you know, when the park was built soccer really wasn’t a thing. But I mean, you can comment on how the new design allows for both.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Like, and I really like the flexibility of it, so that there are there are two ball fields, and I think they’re situated well because then they allow for a big space in between, which is an open space that can be used for multi-purpose. So, it could have soccer games, like full full-length soccer, or there’s also like, you know, smaller pickup games or just practice games. And not just soccer, but lacrosse and field hockey, so there’s other field sports that could be played. So, they’re multi-use open fields that can be used for the schools or for the for the leagues and their teams, but could also just be pickup games, and, you know, people just getting together and say, “Let’s let’s play,” and we see that a lot here, so it’ll be it’ll be nice.

Mark Freda: Yeah, so it’s nice to address that. So, I think another thing people might be curious about is um, you know, we put the dog parks there, the dog parks are used fairly regularly, and, you know, maybe you just want to assure people that there still will be dog parks going there.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Yes, we definitely have two dog parks, one for the small dogs, one for the large dogs. People sometimes mix it up, but it’s okay, if you you know your dog, so, you know, it’s up it’s really like up to the owner to decide where they want to go, but um it’s important to have the option. I think it’s 35 pounds is the limit on the small and then over that for the large. Um, so it’s, you know, it’s important to have, and really the dogs don’t need a lot, but what we’d like to have is some water feature there of some sort so that, you know, you can get water uh for the dogs so you don’t have to bring it.

The water there’s a water fountain there now but it doesn’t work, it hasn’t worked for years. So, it’s a it’s it’s it’s it’s an aspirational goal, but we definitely need to have the water there and then more planting, it’s a good place to plant. Dogs like trees, people need shade, so there’s no reason that we couldn’t put more green infrastructure within the dog parks themselves.

Mark Freda: Yeah. And then I know you mentioned um, you know, new sporting amenities, right? The volleyball and pickleball.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: And pickleball, yeah. Um, since speaking with the schools, volleyball, even though this would be a sand volleyball, you know, it would be good for the for the students uh that are on the teams to practice. It’s a great pickup kind of, you know, um recreational thing for adults or, you know, the kids, and it’s it’s it’s a good attraction, you know, I can see, you know, you bring your picnic, you’re at the pavilion, you go play a game, and then right adjacent to that, uh we envision a kiddie park, so somewhere for the kids to to run around and play.

Mark Freda: Nice adjacencies.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Mm-hm.

Mark Freda: And then, you know, maybe you want to comment a little bit about the tennis courts because, as you said, they’re at their end of life, so they’re going to get a facelift, so to speak, but there’s also like a monetary advantage to what we’re doing with the tennis courts.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Um, yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. So, Princeton Tennis has been a long, decades-long partner with the town. They do a great job of maintaining uh and working with us to manage their their programs, and there’s a lot of programming they do. And they also do a lot of programming to help with the socio-economically disadvantaged, various communities, with schools, senior, at different levels.

So, they have um we’ve agreed to a use agreement with them. Um, they’ve agreed to give up front $300,000 and then in 10 years, uh the agreement would then uh rollover, if it rolls over, they would uh put another $300,000 towards the construction of or the reconstruction of the tennis courts. Since they’re at their end of life, the tennis courts need to be rebuilt, and we’re hoping that they would be in the Phase 1 part of our of our plan.

Mark Freda: Yeah. Right. So, there’s an another another way to show that we don’t there’s effort into how to bring money into this other than just taxpayer money.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Exactly.

Mark Freda: And, you know, the whole public-private partnership wherever possible.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Yeah, and I think that’s a great example and a great framework uh to work with a with a non-profit entity that is going to work with us managing, maintaining a portion of the park, and paying uh a nice uh donation uh towards the reconstruction.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah. All right, so now, you know, zooming out to the the bigger picture, how do you think this project connects with Princeton’s broader goals, whether it’s recreation, sustainability, community building? I mean, what does that mean to you personally—here’s another one of my long-winded questions—but what does that kind of mean to you personally as a council member trying to pull all that together?

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Well, I so I’m going to wax a little bit historical here. I mean, the parks, I mentioned before, the park’s location borders right on the Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood, so there’s a profound historical significance. The neighborhood has long been a bastion of African American culture and heritage in Princeton, with deep roots dating back, you know, to the 19th century. So, I think that, you know, through making Community Park South more accessible and inclusive, that really has a pivotal role in preserving and celebrating the rich history and legacy um of the community. Um, and I think that there’s a lot there that, you know, that tell of telling of stories and traditions of of the community. And I think it’s really a be a wonderful way to honor it uh now, for its legacy.

Mark Freda: Yeah, yeah. Well, so this is all pretty exciting, and I think, um, just to remind folks, I think you said it’ll probably be later toward the end of this year that the updated plans will come back again and people will be able to come to a council meeting and and see see the latest.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Yeah, it’s exciting, so, yeah, hopefully soon.

Mark Freda: Yeah. Well, Michelle, thank you very much. It’s cool to catch up with you and to talk about this project.

Michelle Pirone Lambros: Thanks, appreciate it, Mark.